cheating attempts?

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EWQMinesweeper
Posts: 410
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:50 pm

cheating attempts?

Post by EWQMinesweeper » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:57 pm

cryslon pointed me to this:

http://translate.google.com/translate?d ... Id%3D11823
[Q] I ask how to make the value of the current Board 3BV when it is displayed in the sweep ah? (1/107)

[Second place] Ji Ming published in the January 10, 2014
Can you master, how to make the value of the current Board 3BV sweep time in the show ah?
Instead of the default sweep time as the invisible, the only display Saowan or mined out
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1st floor

[Ray St.] Lin Han replied on January 10, 2014
Arbiter can use cheat mode, because it's actually cheating

Clone0.97 that feature is a bug, plus a variety of other bug, it was only a worldwide ban on the use of

this makes me wonder whether saolei.net people could or should do more to enforce the rules for msinfo rankings. the fact that such a question gets asked worries me. the funny mode bug in clone 0.97 could be abused without pretty much any chance to detect it. funny mode was and is considered cheating. is it known well enough in the chinese ms community what is considered cheating?
„Das perlt jetzt aber richtig über, ma sagn. Mach ma' noch'n Bier! Wie heißt das? Biddä! Bidddää! Biddddäää! Reiner Weltladen!“

pauv
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Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:06 am

Re: cheating attempts?

Post by pauv » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:27 am

http://pan.baidu.com/s/1gdkOHKv

hey [name removed], check this link please. I don't know if one can CHEAT LIKE THIS.

gacord
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 5:14 am

Re: cheating attempts?

Post by gacord » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:09 am

Most players from saolei.net do not cheat even they know how to set clone 0.97 to show 3BV soon after game start

So don't mind these slim festival

Childe
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:35 am

Re: cheating attempts?

Post by Childe » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:03 am

Lin Han was just advising Ji Ming how to use the cheat mode, which is just for fun. But he didn't suggest to use it. You can feel his attitude towards cheating in his reply, "it's actually cheating".

As we all know, neither ARBITER nor CLONE0.97 can save the video in cheating mode. And now almost all the players in saolei.net start to use ARBITER 0.52. So what you concern is unnecessary. Acutually, the Chinese Minesweeper players are more honest and professional than you think.

kevin6625
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Re: cheating attempts?

Post by kevin6625 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:41 am

EWQMinesweeper wrote:cryslon pointed me to this:

http://translate.google.com/translate?d ... Id%3D11823
[Q] I ask how to make the value of the current Board 3BV when it is displayed in the sweep ah? (1/107)

[Second place] Ji Ming published in the January 10, 2014
Can you master, how to make the value of the current Board 3BV sweep time in the show ah?
Instead of the default sweep time as the invisible, the only display Saowan or mined out
Reply to this topic
1st floor

[Ray St.] Lin Han replied on January 10, 2014
Arbiter can use cheat mode, because it's actually cheating

Clone0.97 that feature is a bug, plus a variety of other bug, it was only a worldwide ban on the use of

this makes me wonder whether saolei.net people could or should do more to enforce the rules for msinfo rankings. the fact that such a question gets asked worries me. the funny mode bug in clone 0.97 could be abused without pretty much any chance to detect it. funny mode was and is considered cheating. is it known well enough in the chinese ms community what is considered cheating?
I am the one who replied the post in the forum. The original sentence has the exact meaning: 'Arbiter can use cheat mode to do it (show 3bv just after game started), because this is just a way of cheating. Clone 0.97 was known to have that function which is a bug, and it also has some other bugs, that's why it was banned anywhere in the world.'

Do not use Google translate to pretend that you know something, because your Chinese suck too much, and a simple translation tool won't help you understand the exact meaning behind what we Chinese people are talking about, so do not use your imagination to judge what we think.

The purpose of your speech is to prove that all the Chinese players are not honest. But I don't think this is our fault, because Clone 0.97 was the only software which was permitted in saolei.net before Shenjia Zhang made any changes, and none of our Chinese players could get any kind of information of how to do this kind of cheating before Clone is banned. Moreover, I don't think it is necessary for our Chinese players to cheat in order to get a good ranking, since many of us have lots of time playing minesweeper all the year round, which is enough to make a good score through long and constant efforts.

In fact, not all the Chinese people have posted their new minesweeper records to the minesweeper.info, because some of you like you are casting doubts to Chinese players very often, and some of our score which was made by huge time efforts were not recognized by the world ranking, for example, the Mo's Beginner 3bv/s world record, which ruined the image of this world minesweeper ranking website in some Chinese players.

I would like to explain the reason why Xiaoyang Yang is not uploading his video to the world ranking anymore. Xiaoyang Yang had once uploaded his Intermediate 10.25 video to Damien by email one year before, but he told me that Damien didn't accept his video, and the only reply is "The new ranking is today", which is contradictory to what Damien told me before "Xiaoyang did not send me any 10.25 videos". And he was very angry about his video not being accepted, because that meant the world ranking would be not longer real. After saolei.net has followed the rules of using Arbiter for the Chinese ranking, Xiaoyang has no longer uploading his records to saolei.net, and the only reason that he explained is 'Why Chinese people should follow your nasty rules of picking up your only acceptable software for ranking(Despite he is using Arbiter now, he still never upload his videos)?' Which all comes from his bad impression towards this world ranking.

That's all that I can say. Some of the voices don't come from my view, but maybe they could represent the thoughts of other Chinese players.

Thanks!
God helps those who help themselves.
Beg=0.82rt[NF] int=9.75rt[NF] exp=41.08rt[NF] (until 07/01/2015)

EWQMinesweeper
Posts: 410
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: cheating attempts?

Post by EWQMinesweeper » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:50 am

thanks for the quick replies.

pauv: i have put a lot of thought into finding ways in which cheating at minesweeper affects the solving style. the conclusion to this was that only extremely good sweepers would be able to hide their cheating in their solves and that they are much less inclined to cheat, especially as they are already fast without cheating. i have no reason to assume any cheating in the games you linked. but to answer your question: yes, one could cheat like this. no, i don't think this was cheated.

gacord: "slim festival"? i'm sure only a very small fraction of people cheat at minesweeper and an even smaller fraction makes it onto the rankings.

childe: thank you very much in particular for this explanation. the google translation i had was more than ambiguous and didn't carry the original tone of these 2 translated posts. i am sure that chinese sweepers are honest and professional. their among the top200 on the world rankings shows this very well.

kevin6625: thank you for the correct translation. i will take your word for it that google's translation between chinese and english is far from perfect and must be treated very carefully. please bear in mind though, that i have not really any other choice if i want to understand what is going on at saolei.net.

i never pretended that i knew exactly what was going on in these posts nor did i make any kind of judgement. if you read my post again, i hope you will see that i wrote "[...]makes me wonder whether[...]worries me[]." i didn't understand the exact meaning and thus i expressed my concerns, hoping for a quick answer, which you and others were able to deliver.

where did i try to "prove that all the Chinese players are not honest."? please do not get personal.

"But I don't think this is our fault, because Clone 0.97 was the only software which was permitted in saolei.net before Shenjia Zhang made any changes," msinfo != saolei.net. as simple as that. it's not your fault and afaik damien has added quite a few 0.97 games to his rankings, despite 0.97 having been banned by the imc many years ago.

"none of our Chinese players could get any kind of information of how to do this kind of cheating before Clone is banned" when exactly did clone get banned? http://www.minesweeper.info/wiki/Funny_Mode

"Moreover, I don't think it is necessary for our Chinese players to cheat in order to get a good ranking, since many of us have lots of time playing minesweeper all the year round, which is enough to make a good score through long and constant efforts." irrelevant to this discussion as it applies to just anyone who enjoys playing ms.

"because some of you like you are casting doubts to Chinese players very often" many records/games and little sinde information -> many doubts, it's simple. do you know what kamil and i did to avoid this? post a lot of games to show gradual improvement, post a lot of videos, attend real tournaments and discuss minesweeper things with other sweepers. if there was more communication and there were more people from saolei reaching out to msinfo, i have no doubt, there would be no need for such discussions and doubts.

"the Mo's Beginner 3bv/s world record, which ruined the image of this world minesweeper ranking website in some Chinese players." same as the above paragraph. get more involved in msinfo if something on here bothers you.

"I would like to explain the reason why Xiaoyang Yang is not uploading his video to the world ranking anymore. [...]" what does this have to do with the original discussion?

"because that meant the world ranking would be not longer real" assuming that the world ranking would no longer be real because of a few missing names is chlidish. the world ranking is as it is. how can you be sure that there aren't hundres of people with sub30 on expert who just don't bother sending their videos? it's unlikely but it should show you, that the position one has on the world ranking only means as much as their position among those who are listed there.

"Which all comes from his bad impression towards this world ranking." bad luck for him. why did you/he not tell it here on msinfo until now?

"'Why Chinese people should follow your nasty rules of picking up your only acceptable software for ranking(Despite he is using Arbiter now, he still never upload his videos)?' " if you don't share these kind of things on msinfo, how are we supposed to do something about them? again, get more invloved on msinfo and leave your comfort zone on saolei.net.
„Das perlt jetzt aber richtig über, ma sagn. Mach ma' noch'n Bier! Wie heißt das? Biddä! Bidddää! Biddddäää! Reiner Weltladen!“

thefinerminer
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Re: cheating attempts?

Post by thefinerminer » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:28 pm

It is nice to see more of the Chinese community here.

The language barrier has been a big problem, and this is another example. If people have ideas for a solution, please start a new topic - I am very interested in making a better way to share information and scores with the Chinese ranking.

Here is my idea to fix the problem with rankings: :arrow: http://www.minesweeper.info/forum/viewt ... 1829#p1829

I apologise to Xiao-Yang Yang. I investigated now, and yes he emailed 10.25 on 17/12/12. The next day I answered "new ranking is today :) " to tell him his score was updated. But for some strange reason I missed his score and it is not in the database. And for some strange reason, he never emailed again (to complain), so I did not know there was a problem.

Cheating: We know the Chinese community is professional, and soon they will be most of the Top20 players. The problem was using an old clone (Clone 0.97), the time someone hacked clone to make 'Funny Mode' show 3BV before the game started, and that Arbiter was hacked so Cryslon had to release many new versions in 2013. This is probably because the Chinese community is bigger now than the English community, so there will be more better players and also more better cheaters! The good news is Arbiter has been improved, and the new Chinese ranking allows Arbiter and has banned Clone.

Maybe some people think Chinese players are cheating, and maybe some Chinese players think I am not accepting their scores: both are wrong :lol:

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