World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Report mistakes, discuss fake scores, suggest ideas or discuss ranking rules
gacord
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 5:14 am

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by gacord »

Jze joined in these tournaments:
5th Gsc held on Oct 2019 JZE 8th
QQ图片20210501004924.png
QQ图片20210501004924.png (23.42 KiB) Viewed 583 times
6th Gsc held on Apr 2020 JZE 1st
QQ图片20210501004856.png
QQ图片20210501004856.png (21.15 KiB) Viewed 583 times
7th Gsc held on Oct 2020 JZE 1st
QQ图片20210501004816.png
QQ图片20210501004816.png (21.7 KiB) Viewed 583 times
8th Gsc held on Apr 2021 JZE 1st
QQ图片20210501004749.png
QQ图片20210501004749.png (43.33 KiB) Viewed 583 times
thefinerminer
Site Admin
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:33 pm
Location: UK, Scotland
Contact:

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by thefinerminer »

So...this is what happens when I go on holiday for a few days :)

The only reason JZE is not #1 is because he has not emailed his Arbiter history file (stats.dat) with the record. I asked many times and begged other players to speak with him. One player said JZE is "proud" and might never send (because of this forum topic).

This makes life difficult for me - a world ranking without the best player! Normally, if someone claims a world record and does not provide ALL evidence asked, they would be banned. However, JZE is a special case. I reviewed all videos and there is no evidence of cheating. I trust Pauv 100% and disagree with the analysis by Kamil (the strategy is used by several of the top Chinese players).

kaoriibestgirl makes 2 very good points. First, the minesweeper community does not have fixed rules for evidence and the default is innocent until proven guilty. Second, other communities have deep experience with cheating and we can learn from them. I think we need clear rules (for example, maybe Sub50 players must upload their history file and make videos on 2 versions, a player with a world record must provide evidence on 3 versions and be seen in person by a trusted person...) and we should work with other communities (like Speedrun).
pauv
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:06 am

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by pauv »

About meeting in person, I've spent much time to read all the meeting dairy on saolei.wang forum and interview many people online to complete this drawing:
source
I won't do more fix work because of the chart has been very complicated and the sub50 player group in China is still enlarging :? At least 10 years ago, Roman Gammel(RUS) came to China to meet some old players in the drawing but I'm not sure who they are.

My evidence: My dairy meeting GWJ
I've also uploaded my personal stat.dat to msinfo.

Meeting chances that JZE has missing:
a. Meeting for 18307 Because the MC 18307 change date, JZE not shown.

b. Meeting for GWJ dropped in ShanghaiSince the MC is 8356(GWJ), JZE shows his interest to come with low possibility at planning step, but finally quit the meeting chat group for personal affair.
ID of msinfo: 3819
ID of saolei: 3706
ID of "League of Minesweeper": 36532
ID of WoM: 770798
gacord
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 5:14 am

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by gacord »

So let's make the rules for example:
world record holders should be spotted by at least 2 sub40 players.
sub40 players should be spotted by at least 2 sub40 players or 3 sub50 players.
sub50 players should be spotted by at least 2 sub50 players or 3 sub60 players.
pauv
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:06 am

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by pauv »

My pb vs JZE's pb
My pb vs JZE's pb
p2p.png (384.41 KiB) Viewed 448 times
light color only belongs to single player.
JZE loses on his early games on these 3bv:
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=40的初级pb是8.09s,3bv/s=4.944,STNB=54.13,排名为30
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=43的初级pb是13.34s,3bv/s=3.223,STNB=24.86,排名为34
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=46的初级pb是8.91s,3bv/s=5.163,STNB=52.82,排名为4
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=117的高级pb是55.65s,3bv/s=2.102,STNB=54.88,排名为30
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=119的高级pb是45.66s,3bv/s=2.606,STNB=78.13,排名为14
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=122的高级pb是54.12s,3bv/s=2.254,STNB=60.00,排名为47
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=128的高级pb是42.98s,3bv/s=2.978,STNB=93.14,排名为19
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=129的高级pb是66.59s,3bv/s=1.937,STNB=44.59
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=132的高级pb是61.23s,3bv/s=2.156,STNB=52.63
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=177的高级pb是78.74s,3bv/s=2.248,STNB=46.02
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=179的高级pb是46.19s,3bv/s=3.875,STNB=115.2,排名为13
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=208的高级pb是112.33s,3bv/s=1.852,STNB=29.56
18290(鞠泽恩)在雷网3bv=209的高级pb是62.46s,3bv/s=3.346,STNB=80.56,排名为40
GWJ's pb vs JZE's pb
GWJ's pb vs JZE's pb
8356vs18290.png (391.21 KiB) Viewed 448 times
8356(郭蔚嘉)(Host)VS18290(鞠泽恩)(Guest)
beg:  3.75: 36.25( 41: 43)
int:  9.75: 64.25( 78: 76)
exp: 31.25: 82.25(129:109)
sum: 44.75:182.75(248:228)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The data are creeped from saolei.wang and the graph are all generated by Ji-Heng JIANG's online bot.
Last edited by pauv on Fri May 14, 2021 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
ID of msinfo: 3819
ID of saolei: 3706
ID of "League of Minesweeper": 36532
ID of WoM: 770798
thefinerminer
Site Admin
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:33 pm
Location: UK, Scotland
Contact:

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by thefinerminer »

===========JZE uploaded his Arbiter history file today and I updated the World Rankings as promised.==========

Btw, JZE should meet other players when he is allowed. The best evidence is playing in front of trusted players and he is almost the only top player nobody has witnessed. That is the point when I will be happy to support an application to Guinness World Records, like I did for Kamil.

You can keep sending JZE evidence to this forum. There is no reason to stop! I'll keep this thread open. :mrgreen:
EWQMinesweeper
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by EWQMinesweeper »

This is great news!
„Das perlt jetzt aber richtig über, ma sagn. Mach ma' noch'n Bier! Wie heißt das? Biddä! Bidddää! Biddddäää! Reiner Weltladen!“
pauv
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:06 am

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by pauv »

JZE's new games!
Attachments
#Exp_28.59_3BV=143_3BVs=4.93_Anonymous.avf
50/50 blast time WR and sub6 RQP est
(44.59 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
exp_4.844_3bv174(35.920)_210530_Ju Ze En.avf
1st ever nf RQP sub8 (52th best time & 4th best 3bv/s in nf history)
(54.77 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
ID of msinfo: 3819
ID of saolei: 3706
ID of "League of Minesweeper": 36532
ID of WoM: 770798
pauv
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:06 am

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by pauv »

I'm glad to see JZE is still improving his skill.

2021-06-05, JZE uploaded the two int games below. I checked the sup7 game and found a pattern (6.5s-7.5s) that's not optimal solved, then I found more instances of the pattern.
PTY 2021-04-18: 2.22-19-8.56, 0.5s-1s
JZE 2021-05-17: 33.24-150-4.51, 18s-19s

I mentioned the question of chording order in prechord skill around the mine. We have the c-type direction and the z-type direction, the c-type is most likely success since it has only 2 or 3 unknown squares for the 2nd chord, while it less efficient and provides less information:
13.05-92-7.05.gif
13.05-92-7.05.gif (24.91 KiB) Viewed 155 times
the z-type is less likely success since it has 5 unknown squares for the 2nd chord, but it's the most efficient and provides more information:
35.65-216-6.06.gif
35.65-216-6.06.gif (25.55 KiB) Viewed 155 times
JZE thought it was available in beg level.
ZYY said it would be better than the c-type, if you chord successfully you would get the information faster, if you chord failed you lost almost nothing but it's not friendly for your operation. Of course, if you are familiar with the z-type operation, it's obviously better than c-type.

2021-06-07, JZE sup6 on exp and he applied the z-type direction (27s).
Fun fact, if you divide this game into two part:
1st part: 0s-17.825s
Ces: 90@5.049
Solved 3bv: 90@5.049
Thrp: 1
2nd part: 17.825s-35.65s
Ces: 90@5.049
Solved 3bv: 126@7.068
Thrp: 1.4
The 1st half ranged 16*16 that ends on a missing 3 is normal in JZE's expert games, but the 2nd half ranged 14*16 is sup7 (almost a sup7 int game). The only difference is the thrp (1->1.4). If the left board could be as good as the right board then JZE might achieved sup7 expert?
Attachments
Ju Ze En_Exp_36.65(3bv216).avf
sup6
(57.86 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
Ju Ze En_Int_14.05(3bv92).avf
sup7
(24.15 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
Ju Ze En_Int_8.34(3bv50).avf
3bv/s=6.81
(14.88 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
ID of msinfo: 3819
ID of saolei: 3706
ID of "League of Minesweeper": 36532
ID of WoM: 770798
pauv
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:06 am

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by pauv »

Yan Zhong recorded JZE's minesweeper+schulte+praw games. The meeting diary by Fei-tong Wu.

-----------------------------------
Score of who paticipated:
Ze-en Ju, 0.49+6.84+28.7=36.03, saolei ID=18290
Yan Zhong, 0.54+10.43+41.46=52.43, saolei ID=13688
Fei-tong Wu, 0.93+12.45+49.19=62.57, saolei ID=20657
Pei-Yao Tong, 1.53+13.15+52.51+67.19, saolei ID=16876
ID of msinfo: 3819
ID of saolei: 3706
ID of "League of Minesweeper": 36532
ID of WoM: 770798
kiraa96
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:35 pm

Re: World Record 29.43 (Ze-En Ju)

Post by kiraa96 »

Woah that's amazing!
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